I think that coming to Italy to do a course would absolutely not be a problem. They might hassle you for some taxes or something, but I can't see them simply turning you around at the airport.
Yeah, you can't stay for a year and work without getting the relevant documentation, and they'll probably look more closely if you come from, say, Kenya (you'd probably need a visa), rather than the US, but... still, I think things in the US are particularly fucked up.
For instance: for me to live in Italy legally, I have to be married to my wife - full stop. For my wife to go to the US, she has to spend hundreds of dollars, travel to various US embassies, submit to a medical examination, and spend lots of time waiting. And she has a doctorate in biochemistry, is eminently employable, and is the wife and mother of US citizens.
For my wife to go to the US, she has to spend hundreds of dollars, travel to various US embassies, submit to a medical examination, and spend lots of time waiting.
And beyond looking it up, we started going through the procedure several years ago, but ended up deciding to stay in Italy for the time being, so it's something I know first hand.
Here in Italy, the land of bureaucracy, it required one and only one office visit with my wife to get my "permesso di soggiorno" once we were married.
Getting one of those without being married is a huge hassle, and exposes one to the full brunt of Italian bureaucracy, but the US should be "better than that".
This thread gives the impression that the US is rather different and intrusive. "To go to the US" is as easy as flying there from a Visa Waver country. "To live in the US" is a different thing.
FWIW, a similar story can be constructed for Canada - in order to be landed immigrants, we had to go through selection by a province (submission of over an inch of paperwork, interview, months of waiting), selection by Canada (similar pile of paperwork, waiting), pay hundreds of dollars for medical exams and single-handedly support the local "passport photo" and fingerprint establishments. There were checks done by the police and both provincial and federal levels of both countries involved.
I suspect this process isn't unique to any one country. Oh and the whole process cost a few thousand dollars in government fees.
I asked because my wife entered the United States on the same IR1 visa, quite a few years before you met your wife. There are fairly frequent comments here on HN by other persons advising HN participants who are thinking out loud about how to stay in the United States, and sometimes those comments include advising people to get into a sham marriage. (The link you have shared, which I have repeated here, will be helpful to onlookers who don't know the law on that subject.) That people would even consider getting into a sham marriage to stay in the United States longer, or to enter it for the first time, illustrates the overall worldwide desirability of the United States, and thus the background for the statutory and regulatory changes that have happened in issuing IR1 visas since my wife got hers. It's still my impression, as a former immigration lawyer, that the IR1 is rather a fast track to United States permanent residence and eventual citizenship compared to many other tracks that would-be immigrants pursue.
I can well understand any American desiring to stay and thrive in the country where he met the love of his life. I married overseas, and lived in my wife's country of origin for more than a year after our marriage before she ever saw any part of the United States. I feel much fondness for the country where I met my wife, which, like Italy, has thoroughly undergone the demographic transition and is on a trend eventually to decrease significantly in population. The United States, meanwhile, continues to increase in population and to enjoy net immigration in comparison to almost all other countries in the world. So while it is regrettable in individual cases that previous patterns of fraud have made IR1 visas much more burdensome to obtain than they once were, that is not surprising on policy grounds. A lot of people around the world still think that all the requirements you mention as unduly troublesome are not too much to put up with to gain the right to permanent residence and a fast track to citizenship in the United States.
Best wishes for always have a country or two in which you can enjoy life together and prosper in your chosen careers. Thanks for the link.
Just to be clear, we didn't stop the process because it was that expensive of difficult, just that we decided to stay in Italy for the immediate future. We may well restart it in the next few years. It's a pain in the neck, not an insurmountable obstacle.
That said, I guess generally,
> So while it is regrettable in individual cases that previous patterns of fraud have made IR1 visas much more burdensome to obtain than they once were, that is not surprising on policy grounds.
I am not in favor of that sort of legislation - "some people cause problems, so we'll make it hard for everyone in order to prevent, rather than punish transgressors". It's a very prevalent way of dealing with problems here in Italy, and IMO it is a drag on society. I prefer rules that are liberal, and certain (well, as much as possible) punishment for those who break them. Compared to other places (like Italy), the US is pretty good that way, by and large, even if imperfect, which makes the immigration system all the more galling.
Yeah, you can't stay for a year and work without getting the relevant documentation, and they'll probably look more closely if you come from, say, Kenya (you'd probably need a visa), rather than the US, but... still, I think things in the US are particularly fucked up.
For instance: for me to live in Italy legally, I have to be married to my wife - full stop. For my wife to go to the US, she has to spend hundreds of dollars, travel to various US embassies, submit to a medical examination, and spend lots of time waiting. And she has a doctorate in biochemistry, is eminently employable, and is the wife and mother of US citizens.